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Fox's Doocy Calls Case Against Photographer Who Discriminated Against Same-Sex Couple A "Fight Against Faith"

June 13, 2012 8:59 am ET

From the June 13 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:

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Previously:

Kilmeade: "Should Public School Teachers Be Ordered To Tell Their Students Why It's OK To Be Gay?"


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    • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 13, 2012 9:07 am ET)
      19  
      Is there something in the bible that says you're not allowed to photograph sinners?

      Why does the Right insist on equating bigotry with "faith?"

      OK, I know WHY, but the thing is...? The more you do this, in th elong run, it doesn't make bigotry look GOOD, so much as it makes FAITH look bad!

      As faith becomes more and more equated with bigotry, it can only serve to turn MORE PEOPLE away from religion as time goes on and the inevitable social progress continues to be made.

      ------------------------------
      IMHO
      UTOPIA
      POLITICAL SYMMETRY
      Report Abuse
      • Author by rkcomments (June 13, 2012 1:18 pm ET)
        3 1
        Yep, I'm sure Doocy has his pulse on what Jesus cared about!

        I blame his parents for bringing this pathetic creature into this world. Doocy, that is!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by phlcstgan (June 13, 2012 9:14 am ET)
      11  
      What's the saying? "Your right to swing your fist ends at my jaw"?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by BlueFish (June 13, 2012 9:17 am ET)
      13  
      I don't understand what makes this photopraphy business "private" any more than a restaurant, movie theatre, clothing store, etc. Do they not make their services available to the entire public sector?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 13, 2012 12:50 pm ET)
        7  
        Would they feel the same way if he refued to photograph inter-racial couples? Or suspected illegals / green-card married couples?

        ------------------------------
        IMHO
        UTOPIA
        POLITICAL SYMMETRY
        Report Abuse
      • Author by joeybagofdonuts (June 13, 2012 1:03 pm ET)
        7 1
        It's a total disregard for the terms "public" and "private" in the legal sense of the term. Restaurants and movie theaters in the Jim Crow south were private entities, and the fact they discriminated against racial minorities in the quality and availability of their service was an affront to a black customer's civil rights. It's the same argument segregationists use (and still use today: Bars and Clubs with a "No Hoodies/No Sagging Jeans/No backwards baseball caps" might as well be saying "NO COLOREDS") No matter how much you want to turn this into a faith discrimination issue, this photographer was in conflict with the Civil Rights Act for refusing services based on the sexual orientation of his/her clients. I'm glad the courts have affirmed this reading of the law.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by epkklk851 (June 13, 2012 9:27 am ET)
      12  
      Discrimination is wrong, except when when someone decides to discriminate against someone you don't like. Then forcing a service to offer their services is wrong.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by phlcstgan (June 13, 2012 9:42 am ET)
        11  
        Well, discrimination is okay when it's against a "lifestyle choice", which religion is not, apparently.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by danielsangeo (June 13, 2012 10:11 am ET)
          15  
          To see them get red in the face, ask them if it's okay to discriminate based upon religious choice. So, if I was running a business and I was hiring someone to do something that was not religious based at all (entirely secular)...such as cutting payroll checks, and I said that they couldn't work here because they were Christian. What do you think their response to this would be?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by danielsangeo (June 13, 2012 10:49 am ET)
            11  
            Or, more on topic, if I was a photographer, and I refused to take the picture of a Christian couple.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by epkklk851 (June 13, 2012 11:24 am ET)
              8  
              Yep, you must know some of the same "Christians" that I know.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by danielsangeo (June 13, 2012 5:16 pm ET)
                2  
                I like to call them "salad bar Christians". You know how you go to a salad bar and only pick out the ingredients that you like to make a salad while leaving the rest untouched?

                Yeah, these types go to the salad bar and fill their plates with bacon bits and shredded cheese and say that's a salad.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by joeybagofdonuts (June 13, 2012 1:08 pm ET)
            8 2
            It's sickening how a group of "Christians" have come to define religious freedom so narrowly so that they may freely discriminate others who do not believe their way of thinking. It's a cancer on the body politic.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Quicksilver M.S (June 13, 2012 10:13 am ET)
        8  
        Was it not just a week or so back that a women did not wish to rent to a Iraq or Afghan Vet. The foxsewN talent were all up in Arms . The foxsweN Talent insisted that a PRIVATE business person had No Right to refuse renting to the Vet . The women has her BELIEFS that War is wrong .
        foxsweN talent pointed out the fact that the Vet had the Right to Sue the Apartment owner . foxsweN talent held up the Voice mail message of her Say" NO , as he is a Vet , and she has Issues about that and War is Wrong " .

        ........... Now..............

        A similar thing occurs , and it is about a Gay Couple . fowsweN Talent are .. " How can a PRIVATE business be Told what to do "

        PS
        It was reported and the Vet admitted that he Suffers from P.T.S.D. and has Violent behavior .

        Writing is not my Friend , I hope this makes some sense . Learning disabilities , donut you know .
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Quicksilver M.S (June 13, 2012 10:13 am ET)
        8  
        Was it not just a week or so back that a women did not wish to rent to a Iraq or Afghan Vet. The foxsewN talent were all up in Arms . The foxsweN Talent insisted that a PRIVATE business person had No Right to refuse renting to the Vet . The women has her BELIEFS that War is wrong .
        foxsweN talent pointed out the fact that the Vet had the Right to Sue the Apartment owner . foxsweN talent held up the Voice mail message of her Say" NO , as he is a Vet , and she has Issues about that and War is Wrong " .

        ........... Now..............

        A similar thing occurs , and it is about a Gay Couple . fowsweN Talent are .. " How can a PRIVATE business be Told what to do "

        PS
        It was reported and the Vet admitted that he Suffers from P.T.S.D. and has Violent behavior .

        Writing is not my Friend , I hope this makes some sense . Learning disabilities , donut you know .
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Quicksilver M.S (June 13, 2012 10:20 am ET)
          8  
          Wow! badly writing once was not enough .. twice is Horrible .. Sorry Guys .
          Report Abuse
        • Author by epkklk851 (June 13, 2012 10:36 am ET)
          6  
          I know what you meant. I understand why the landlord would have problems, but the law says you have to rent to people without discriminating.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by David2012 (June 13, 2012 9:28 am ET)
      11  
      Here's another group of believers who have a deep Christian faith that ultimately had to be compromised by the War on Christianity and the Fight against Faith:

      http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-12-01/news/30464699_1_interracial-church-offering-resolution
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wenfen (June 13, 2012 10:05 am ET)
        14  
        Oh yes. And was there not a time in the not so distant past when white Americans were allowed to refuse service to black people? And didn't they justify there refusal by various arguments including their Christian faith?

        As long as we are on this track...many, many white slaveholders (And Americans in general) justified their abusive enslavement practices by alluding to the Bible.

        I swear, listening to these fools on Fox, it is as if I have been transported back to a much uglier time in America.

        I have to conclude that this is what the Far Right envisions for America once again. Isn't that what they really mean when they proclaim they want "their America back?"
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ajzito (June 13, 2012 10:25 am ET)
        9  
        This won't do. For the Christian majority in the US to claim that there is a 'War on Christianity' and a 'Fight Against Faith' is at least as pathetic as white males whining about reverse discrimination. What is happening is that the Chrisian right is losing some of its power and privileged status in the political arena. Pampered elites always try to portray loss of power and privelege as oppression. It is transparent, self-serving, and it always fails.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by bintx (June 13, 2012 9:28 am ET)
      11 1
      Not a fight against faith. Jesus Christ didn't approve of hatred and exclusion. Nothing in his teachings support the hatred that these people are showing to others.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by thaneb (June 13, 2012 9:59 am ET)
        12  
        Though they express great reverence for Jesus Christ, their "Faith" seems to be an amalgam of cherry-picked Old Testament and New Testament with undue emphasis on Revelations.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by danielsangeo (June 13, 2012 10:08 am ET)
        12  
        You know what's funny (in the way milk smells after it's turned) about this?

        If they're backed into a corner when it's said that same sex marriage isn't admonished, condemned as abominable, or whatever anywhere in the Bible, they'll claim that Jesus said that marriage is "one man, one woman"....in admonition of divorce.

        To me, that says that gays are allowed to divorce, but straight people aren't. ;)
        Report Abuse
    • Author by historygeek001 (June 13, 2012 9:37 am ET)
      14  
      So if my faith said that you shouldn't be on TV then by your own logic you're violating my faith by being on TV and should get off the air.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wenfen (June 13, 2012 9:52 am ET)
      11  
      It is simply amazing how these people delight in their own ugliness.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by danielsangeo (June 13, 2012 10:20 am ET)
        10  
        If anything resembles modern-day Sodom in the United States, it's the right-wing media, from Fox News to Rush Limbaugh.

        Ezekiel 16:49-50
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (June 13, 2012 11:43 am ET)
          8 2
          Exactly, and what these modern day Sodomites don't understand is that it wasn't the so-called sin of homosexuality or immorality that brought down Sodom and Gomorrah, it was the sin of being inhospitable. (It was actually probably an asteroid, but I digress.) The point is, that the story of Sodom and Gommorah was not about the immorality, it was about Lot being the only person in the city who offered hospitality to the two strangers (messengers of God/angels). The men outside wanted to demean them by performing sexual acts on them.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (June 13, 2012 2:02 pm ET)
            4 2
            So, apparently, Thumby isn't a Christian and has no idea what the Bible says. Who knew? :)
            Report Abuse
            • Author by foole (June 13, 2012 2:41 pm ET)
              5  
              You got 2 drive-by thumbs down on that one. Best not be spoiling their readin' and unnerdstandin' of the Bible with all these facts and stuff!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by bintx (June 13, 2012 3:42 pm ET)
                4 2
                I know. I'll have to tell all of my Baptist Bible professor buddies that they are just wrong, because a phony conservative Foxbot online said they were. They'll be so surprised since they actually have doctorates and all and actually TEACH college Bible classes. :)
                Report Abuse
    • Author by foole (June 13, 2012 10:24 am ET)
      10  
      I wonder how this bunch of "christians" would feel if a case came up where a Muslim photographer refused to take a picture of a nude woman because of his faith? If these a-holes weren't full of crapola, they would be see through.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by epkklk851 (June 13, 2012 10:35 am ET)
      5  
      I've tried to post a reply and have been censored for swearing when I did not swear. Is anyone else having this problem today?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wenfen (June 13, 2012 10:52 am ET)
        4  
        Not today. Yet. But it has happened to me, for no apparent reason other than someone at MM is/was feeling particularly "Church Lady" that day/moment.

        Who knows these things?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (June 13, 2012 11:44 am ET)
        4 1
        No, but my problem is usually when I use the words "hard" and "on" together in a sentence to mean being difficult.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Quicksilver M.S (June 13, 2012 11:53 am ET)
          2  
          hard on
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Quicksilver M.S (June 13, 2012 11:53 am ET)
            2  
            hard on
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Quicksilver M.S (June 13, 2012 11:55 am ET)
              3  
              There seems to be a back door to getting around the Censor .
              Report Abuse
              • Author by chuckie (June 13, 2012 12:10 pm ET)
                4  
                I ran into the same word combintation problem in the past. Took me forever to figure out what the problem was. Like if I said that divorce was **** on children, the filter flagged the post.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by epkklk851 (June 13, 2012 4:10 pm ET)
                  1  
                  (Service)I mentioned two innocent words, commonly used together by the military to describe a member of the military and got zapped.
                  Report Abuse
    • Author by jeffnky (June 13, 2012 1:48 pm ET)
      3  
      As a photographer who has been asked more times than I can remember to shoot someone's wedding and declined most. There are several issues here. First if the photographer has a business that does other weddings then they are wrong, if asked you must do the job. But they should also tell the potential customers that they have personal issues and would rather not do that job. If the customer insists that they want them to do the job then they must.

      If I knew the customer and found out that they were hiring a photographer that did not want the job I would tell them to get another photographer. Every one will be unhappy with the resulting photos and that is what matters here. This is a one time event and there are no second chances and forcing someone to use their creative and artistic skills does not work very well.

      I have only shot 2 weddings in the last decade and I did them free and had a great time. One was my cousin who was married on a beach at Turtle Beach Lodge in Costa Rica and the other was an outside wedding of two men held in Cincinnati.

      There are many photographers who enjoy these weddings, find one and you will be so much happier with the results.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ajzito (June 14, 2012 9:04 am ET)
           
        While I understand completely what you are saying, Jeffnky, and it strikes me as good practical advice, I think the couple in question here were offended by the frankness with which the photographer told them he didn't want to have anything to do with gay weddings. I wish I could remember how the couple quoted the photographer's response when this incident first happened; I can't exactly, but I can recall thinking that the photographer went out of his way to be offensive. Think about it - the photographer could have discretely said that he was already booked, would be away on other business, etc., but he chose to pointedly tell these people that he objects to their way of life. What kind of way is that to do business?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Maimonides 03 (June 13, 2012 3:37 pm ET)
      3 1
      I thought it was okay to dicriminate? People of faith do it all the time against: gay, bi-sexual, black, asian, muslims, jewish. Each group is seen as "less" by another group. That is the very nature of most religions: I am right and you are wrong, I have knowledge that can only be aquired by being part of this group.

      So people of faith probably don't like being the target of what they usually inflict on other. How many years have people of faith judged others? How many times have they discriminated?

      Anyway...another non-issue being blown up for propaganda.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (June 13, 2012 3:43 pm ET)
        4  
        Laura Ingraham, a professed Catholic, was using discriminatory language against the beliefs of a Jehovah's Witness the other day.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Maimonides 03 (June 13, 2012 3:47 pm ET)
        2  
        lol...I certainly read that backwards....

        Gave myself a thumbs down

        Though I still stand by my point...lol...Religion is based on discrimination it is core value...us vs them
        Report Abuse
        • Author by aturingtest (June 13, 2012 4:38 pm ET)
          1  
          Maimonides:
          Religion is based on discrimination it is core value...us vs them

          Mmmmm...I don't know. I'm not religious by any means (agnostic tending strongly to atheist, if I had to pick a label), but, from what I've seen from some of our Christian friends here, I'd say, sure- folks can use a religious basis to discriminate; but they can equally use it to denounce discrimination. It's like any other societal development- it can be used, for good or ill, by people who themselves are, by their personal natures, one or the other.
          Quick guitar derail- Mai, I remember you saying on another thread you liked acoustic guitar stuff. Have you ever heard the Deep Purple song "The Aviator," from their 1996 album Purpendicular? Give it a whirl if you haven't- it's not the "Smoke On The Water" Deep Purple most folks think of.
          Here's a link to a YouTube video, with lyrics below And hoping MMfA doesn't get too mad at me over this.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Maimonides 03 (June 13, 2012 5:08 pm ET)
            4  
            My area of study was theology and the ties between religion and terrorism...Lol...I was cutting edge at the time, all my friends were Soviet Studies devotees. When the Soviet Union collapsed my friends adjusted...my field jsut keep growing.

            I am an anti-theist/atheist of the same order as Richard Dawkins, a level 6 out of 7.You have to leave room for the possibility.

            I do see people of faith who are good people and do good things, but I find for many the underlying dogma is "us vs them". To be part of us you have to accept certain beliefs, and that is fine just not my thing.

            Oddly, I am a zionist, but a rational one that sees my side as very flawed and dogmatic in many cases.

            Mmmmm...guitar. I love playing guitar, especially acoustic. I saw Purple a few years ago on the Perfect Stranger tour...was great.

            Checking link now...sorry MMFA
            Report Abuse
            • Author by aturingtest (June 13, 2012 6:55 pm ET)
              1  
              Mai: agree with most of that. Religion certainly enables prejudice, but I don't know that it would do that with anyone who wasn't inclined to prejudice to begin with. It certainly can reinforce it though, and make it worse. The problem is that prejudice is such a deeply rooted part of human nature (the whole tribalistic, "othering" instinct) that the enabling of it by religion arguably outweighs any beneficial effects it may have when it does the opposite. Religious folks, I don't think, ever really lose that instinct just because of religion- only reason will do that- but rationalize not acting on it by the better teachings of religion. And, as I say, reason alone is enough for that.
              Purple- never saw 'em, but I'd love to, especially now with Steve Morse (one of my two or three favorites) on guitar. I saw him when he played with Kansas, about 1986- the guy is fantastic.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by danielsangeo (June 13, 2012 11:11 pm ET)
                1  
                I think for a great many of those that would be prejudiced anyway, it gives them an excuse for their prejudice and that excuse cannot be logically rebutted because "faith" cannot be logically rebutted.

                "My god says X group of people should be in chains" cannot be rebutted and it moves the responsibility for their prejudice onto a deity. I have heard people, probably decent people, say things like, "I have nothing against gay people but my god says..."

                Regular plain-ol' bigotry can be countered. Bigotry arising from religion cannot.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Maimonides 03 (June 14, 2012 7:42 am ET)
                  1  
                  I like both your posts Daniel and Aturing. If you look at most hate groups they use sacred texts to back their bigotry. It makes it more difficult to counter a claim that appears to have the blessing of a celestial being.

                  I also see the point that many may already have a seed of bigotry in them and that world view gets reinforced by their religion. We, as humans, certainly like to have a segmented structured world to gaze upon.

                  I would argue that even religious based bigotry can be countered, but it is much harder since it involves foundational blocks of an individual's personality. These blocks often receive daily affirmation by : sacred texts, people in positions of power within the religious organization, fellow believers, etc...

                  I went into the study of religion because it is in many ways very foreign to me. I am fascinated with beliefs, ritual, myth and legends.

                  Have you guys ever read any Mircea Eliade? Or Jeruslav Pelikan? Or Maimonides?

                  Anyway, I've been banned from alot of religious based chat groups...lol... I use to challenge their claims simply to get them to think.In many instances they only like to repeat what they believe and not think about what they believe.





                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Maimonides 03 (June 14, 2012 7:18 am ET)
                1  
                Steve Morse and the Dixie Dregs and what I think was his first solo album, Introduction, were fantastic.

                I saw him on a solo tour in a small bar,super talented technical player who was fun to listen to. I am not a huge fan of uber-tech players generally, but he, Jeff Beck and Al Di Meola are definite favs.

                I do have a love affair with prog rock: Yes, Genesis with Peter Gabriel, Rush, Marillion.

                I mostly play acoustic guitar now, but played a ton of electric for years. Now I like playing acoustic arrangements of songs. Currently plaing alot of: Muddy Waters, Allman Brothers, Dylan, the Band, etc...
                Report Abuse
                • Author by aturingtest (June 14, 2012 9:48 am ET)
                     
                  Maimonides:
                  Allman Brothers

                  Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks. 'Nuff said.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Maimonides 03 (June 14, 2012 11:45 am ET)
                    1  
                    Dicky Betts...mmmmm deliscious!!!

                    I's also a fan of Andy Summers from the Police...great player and really intereting ideas
                    Report Abuse
    • Author by Liven-in-iraq (June 14, 2012 6:15 am ET)
         
      If the owners of the business have a religious belief that conflicts with a potential customer, then why doesn't the customer go to another establishment where the owner doesn't have a problem? Discrimination cannot and will never be eliminated. And what's next if the photographer takes photos of everyone from the neck down? Technically, s/he will have done what they were forced to do. So who really benefits?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by villabolo (June 14, 2012 12:19 pm ET)
         
      Oh Israel; beloved by anti-LGBT right-wing Christians! How God must consider you damned for allowing as part of your divine plan.......
      Report Abuse
      • Author by villabolo (June 14, 2012 12:26 pm ET)
        2  
        Oops! I made a boo-boo in the link above. One more try.

        Oh Israel; beloved by anti-LGBT right-wing Christians! How God must consider you damned for allowing as part of your divine plan.......
        Report Abuse
    • Author by crazymonkeylady (June 14, 2012 9:40 pm ET)
         
      My God, Zeus, doesn't care who I photograph. What?? You dismiss my god? Well, I dismiss yours.
      Report Abuse

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